Master-Debaters: GOP Edition, Part II

The third Republican presidential debate.

Where do I begin?

Winners? Losers? I see not winners and losers (although some of these guys are REAL losers), I see differing opinions and ideologies on a variety of subjects.

I've been reading around the 'Internets' and have found that various pundits have declared various winners. Some say that McCain, despite having an unpopular view on immigration, really set himself apart from the rest of the GOP pack. Others thought that Rudy Giuliani was the winner - never mind that there were signs from the Almighty that his pro-choice stance wasn't right for the Grand Ole Party. At least this made for interesting television...

Break it down yo:

Sam Brownback::: Basically, he was a waste of space. The only interesting highlight for me was when Wolf Blitzer asked Senator Brownback to expand on the idea that he rejects evolution as scientific fact. His response:

...I believe that we are created in the image of God for a particular purpose. And I believe that with all my heart. And I’m somebody — I’ve had cancer in the past. I’ve had a season to really look at this and study it and think about the end of life. And I am fully convinced there’s a God of the universe that loves us very much and was involved in the process. How he did it, I don’t know.

One of the problems we have with our society today is that we put faith and science at odds with each other. They aren’t at odds with each other. If they are, check your faith or check your science. And we should have a discussion.

Um, what? How does that answer the question? Duh.

Jim Gilmore::: As Lionus put it, "Who?" Exactly. Okay Jim, we get it. You are a "consistent conservative". You've said that at every debate so far...

Rudy Giuliani::: Rudy, Rudy, Rudy. You actually think that Saddam was a direct threat to the United States? Really? You also are advocating the use of tactical nuclear weapons against Iran? Yikes. You are now officially on my scary motherf**ker list.

I think that James Fallows has the best take on Rudy here.

Mike Huckabee::: Again, on the evolution denunciation bandwagon, here is Huckabee's take:

...you’ve raised the question, so let me answer it. “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth.” To me it’s pretty simple, a person either believes that God created this process or believes that it was an accident and that it just happened all on its own.

...if anybody wants to believe that they are the descendants of a primate, they are certainly welcome to do it. I don’t know how far they will march that back. But I believe that all of us in this room are the unique creations of a God who knows us and loves us and who created us for his own purpose.

Rrrrright Mike - and there is no chance that someone can believe that there is a grey area somewhere in between those two? Nice try. You're really scared of Fred Thompson's Baptist background, aren't you? Yeah, court that religious vote Mike. Court it hard.

Duncan Hunter::: Same as Gilmore. Duncan who? Face it Hunter, Tom Tancredo has the "immigration-is-my-main-issue" crowd is his pocket. We get it - you BUILT the fence with your own two hands. Move on.

John McCain::: J-Mac! Where you been man? Oh really? In the shadow of Giuliani you say? That SUCKS. I thought that McCain actually held his own pretty well during this debate. I don't agree with all of his positions - but it was PAINFULLY clear that McCain's colleagues on stage did not agree with his immigration bill that is currently before Congress.

Rudy's thoughts:

The problem with this immigration plan is it has no real unifying purpose. It’s a typical Washington mess. It’s — everybody compromises, four or five compromises, and the compromises leave you with the following conclusion. The litmus test you should have for legislation is, is it going to make things better? And when you look at these compromise, it is quite possible it will make things worse.

Romney's thoughts:

...this bill, unfortunately, has at least one provision that’s a real problem. It’s the Z visa. And what it allows is people who’ve come here illegally to stay here for the rest of their lives. Not necessarily as citizens; they have to wait 13 years to become citizens.

As you can see, the two "moderate" candidates aren't big fans of McCain's plan (which Georgey W. Bush has backed). Poor Johnny.

I think that McCain's high point was a very moving monologue directed to a member of the audience who lost her younger brother to the war in Iraq. McCain stood up (while the other candidates were seated) and walked to the edge of the stage and said:

It’s not, and I want to tell you, thank you for your brother’s service and sacrifice to our country. We are proud of you and your endurance, and we’re proud of your sacrifice.
This war — I’m going to give you a little straight talk. This war was very badly mismanaged for a long time, and Americans have made great sacrifices, some of which were unnecessary because of this management of the — mismanagement of this conflict.
I believe we have a fine general. I believe we have a strategy which can succeed, so that the sacrifice of your brother would not be in vain; that a whole 20 or 30 million people would have a chance to live a free life in an open society and practice their religion no matter what those differences are.
And I believe if we fail, it will become a center of terrorism, and we will ask more young Americans to sacrifice, as your brother did.
This is long and hard and tough, but I think we can succeed. And God bless you.

Now, I don't necessarily agree with McCain on all points - but I was impressed with his handling of this question.

Ron Paul::: This was by far the best performance by Ron Paul out of the three debates. He was convincing, he was earnest in his responses and I felt that he may have really helped his campaign with this exposure. Because the war in Iraq is becoming so grossly unpopular, I think that Dr. Paul's appeal is getting stronger. On the money:

...we’ve had four years to do this and it hasn’t worked. The biggest incentive for them to take upon themselves the responsibility is just for us to leave. We don’t need to lose 100 men and women every month, more than 1,000 per year. And so you want it done. You want them to take over. You’ve got to give them an incentive.
So I think we should immediately stop patrolling the streets. That’s a policeman’s job. It’s not the work of the Army. We’re not fighting a military battle. We’re in a different type of warfare right now. So the sooner we recognize that, the sooner we can make sure that no more Americans will die.
We have a lot of goodness in this country and we should promote it, but never through the barrel of a gun. We should do it by setting good standards, motivating people, and have them want to emulate us. But you can’t enforce our goodness like the neocons preach with an armed force. It doesn’t work.

Hell yeah.

Mitt Romney::: Mitt - you look so pretty. Why can't your politics match your oh-so-dreamy looks? Flip-flop Mitt, as some have been calling him, is just that - a flip-flopper. Like a fish out of water kids.

Tom Tancredo::: For my money, Tancredo had the best dig of the night. When Wolf Blitzer asked how Mr. Tancredo would utilize the talents of his predecessor George W. Bush, Tancredo responded:

Some time ago, 2003 I think it was, I got a call from Karl Rove who told me that because of my criticism of the president, I should never darken the doorstep of the White House. I have been so disappointed in the president in so many ways since his — actually for the last several years, not just the immigration issue, but several other things, including the No Child Left Behind and the massive increase in government that we call prescription drug — Medicare prescription drug, that I’m afraid I would have to tell the president of the United States — I mean as president, I would have to tell George Bush exactly the same thing Karl Rove told me.

ZING!

Other than that, Tom Tancredo is a whack-job who believes that the United States should halt all types of immigration, both illegal as well as LEGAL. Duh.

...and finally...

Tommy Thompson::: I lump him into the group with Hunter and Gilmore. If Thompson wants votes, he needs to distinguish himself as someone other than "the candidate, not the actor".
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WHEW! Long post.

Comment at will... or don't. It's not like there is anyone actually reading my prose. :)

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Photo: CNN